CARES Act Q&A for Nonprofits

CARES Act Q&A for Nonprofits

April 9, 2020
56 minutes

Matt Scott · CEO, CauseMic / Nonprofit Consultant | Matt breaks down the recent US CARES Act in a way that makes it easy for nonprofits to make the most of the parts that directly affect them.


We've cut out a lot of the jargon and focused on the nonprofit aid to help answer your COVID-19 stimulus-related questions—CauseMic's expert, up-to-date knowledge of the CARES Act makes them the perfect consultancy to tackle these questions for nonprofits. Listen to the recorded live Q&A and check out their in-depth overview of this far-reaching legislation.


Justin Wheeler: All right, so let's jump in and kick this off. Matt, thank you so much for joining us today. For everyone that's tuned in and has registered, Matt Scott is the founder and CEO of CauseMic, which is a creative marketing and fundraising agency exclusively for nonprofit organizations. We have had a lot of fun working together over the years, through just getting to know each other on the personal side, on the business side. And Matt has done an incredible job breaking down the CARES Act. And so we invited him on today because we know there's lots of questions around what does this mean for your nonprofit? And so today's live Q&A is going to be a little bit different. We're going to start with a quick presentation that Matt's going to lead and then we're going to open it up for questions. So if you have any questions, please put them in the Q&A tab and we will start with the ones that have the most upvotes. So please look through and do that. Matt, thanks again for joining us today. How you doing?

Matt Scott: Doing great. Thank you very much for having me. I'm really happy to be back with you. And yeah, all things considered, doing really well from Portland.

Justin Wheeler: Yeah. Awesome. Well, what I want to do is if you could just start off with a quick introduction. Tell us about yourself and what you do so that everyone here has that context.

Matt Scott: Yeah, sure. Like Justin said, my name is Matt Scott. I'm the co-founder and CEO at CauseMic. And we're really a digital marketing firm working exclusively with nonprofits to help them raise gobs of money and awareness online. Just like Justin, I came from the nonprofit space. I spent about a decade or so in various roles in the nonprofit development and marketing departments and just really excited to share kind of the research that we found with respect to CARES Act, as well as some of the other economic stimulus packages that nonprofits can benefit from. In response to COVID-19. So that's really our goal here, it's a little bit unique for us, usually we talk about fundraising and marketing strategies, but really today is about informing people about how they, as a nonprofit leader, can really apply for and be granted various stimulus money. And then we're going to talk a little bit about marketing and fundraising strategy as it relates to some provisions under the CARES Act for tax-deductible contributions. So, yeah, it's a little bit out of my element. But I think nonetheless, we are prepared. So happy to be here.

Justin Wheeler: Awesome. And then for those of you tuning in for the first time, my name's Justin Wheeler. I'm the founder and CEO of Funraise, which is a technology platform for nonprofit organizations. We provide fundraising technology along with CRM and e-mail functionality. So we work with nonprofits all across the country. And our goal over the last month really has been to provide as much value to the nonprofit community. So this is our fourth live Q&A. And we've definitely gone off topic in regards to what we normally talk about as a company, because the world has changed so much in the last 30 days. And we really want to be relevant and helpful because, you know, I think we share this and we believe that nonprofits are on the front lines of making the world a better place. And since we work exclusively with nonprofit organizations, providing as much value as possible is the goal here. And so I'm excited for today. Matt's done a great job at reading through this 800 page plus document and breaking it down. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna start there. We're gonna start with a quick presentation. Matt if you can please share your screen and we'll walk through some slides and then we're going to open it up for any questions as a result. So give us a few minutes to walk through this presentation and then we'll jump into the Q&A.

Matt Scott: Yeah, great. Like Justin said, you know, our goal here in the presentation portion is to give a high-level overview of the various stimulus, you know, money that's available and how your nonprofit might be able to apply. And then we're gonna do our best to answer questions from the Q&A portion. So bear with us we're gonna cover some information. Some of this might be completely new to folks and some of it might be things that they are already aware of. Starting really off with what is the CARES Act, the CARES Act is specifically 2 Trillion dollars worth of stimulus money, the largest economic aid package in U.S. history. It's really designed to provide immediate relief to businesses and nonprofits in the interest of protecting payroll above all else. That doesn't mean that the money can only be used for payroll. It can actually be used for a few other things, such as utilities, mortgages or rent. And some of that will actually be forgiven as long as you follow the guidelines. And so we're going to go over that specifically.

That's the bulk of the package that we're gonna be talking about today. But there are some other programs as well that I want to talk about. Some of those include the EIDL, the Economic Injury Disaster Loan. This is actually a program through SBA, the Small Business Administration. I am gonna do my best when using acronyms to actually say what they are. At least the first time. But knowing that people kind of come and go with webinars. Bear with us if we kind of say the same one. Kind of switching between EIDL or Economic Injury Disaster Loan. There's also for some of the larger non-profits, there is a mid-size loan program. These are for people have above 500 employees. And then there's also tax deductions. Some changes in the tax code specific to charitable giving that are going to be really important as a part of your fundraising and marketing strategy. So we put this together as really a breakdown of kind of those four major buckets. Again, the first one Payment Protection Program. This is really focused on payroll, mortgages, leases and utilities. And we're gonna talk about how you can actually calculate the loan amount that you might qualify for. The second is that Economic Injury Disaster Loan. This is a 30 year fixed rate loan at 3.75% offered for small businesses and nonprofits through the SBA.

You can see that it actually can be used for sick leave. It also can be used for meeting payroll, mortgages and servicing the debt. That's important to call out the distinction there. It can be used to make a loan payment, but it can not be used to replace an existing loan. So let's say your nonprofit already has a short or long term loan, maybe through a bank or through another institution. You can use that money to make the payment for that loan, but not to replace that principal amount. So that's an important distinction. Also something to consider as you see payroll here on both categories as well as Mortgage. PPP, the payment protection program is specifically designed for that first eight weeks is going to be forgiven on the loan amount if you use it and maintain your payroll previous to kind of the Coronavirus crisis and then you can actually use EIDL for additional payroll and mortgage costs that extend beyond that PPP money. So you can use it for both, but it can't be for the same period if that makes sense. So then there's also the mid-size loan program like we discussed. This is for over 500 employees. This is again, really designed to maintain your workforce. So you need to be able to maintain 90% of your workforce.

There's also some other restrictions we're going to talk about, particularly around not outsourcing your work to foreign workers. This is really kind of set up to help the American economy. And, you know, that's really what it's focused on. So we'll talk about that. Lastly, the Charitable Contribution piece, there's actually two aspects of this that are hugely important. First off, everybody knows the impact of the former changes in the tax code on charitable giving. Basically, you know, you weren't able to make - if you used a standard deduction which was doubled after the last tax change, then you weren't able to itemize charitable deductions. Now you will be able to itemize charitable deductions even if you're taking that standard deduction as a single or married person up to $300. So that could really help with annual fund fundraising, in particular, something obviously the Funraise platform is really great at and as well as I should say, providing these awesome mugs. I've been drinking a lot of coffee out of this to prepare for this webinar. And then also another big change in the tax deduction code that's really worth calling out and perhaps is going to have a bigger economic impact for your organizations with legacy giving or major gift departments actually instead of 50% deductible, now all contributions will be 100% deductible if you are itemizing your deductions, not just taking that standard deduction. That's really, really important. I was just on the phone actually with a friend of mine who runs a wealth management firm. Really talking about the impacts that this will have on charitable giving and a lot of his high net worth clients are really thinking about upping their charitable giving this year as a part of their overall tax strategy. So worth calling out on the fundraising side.

Okay. Let's talk about eligibility real quick. First off, this is PPP, registered 501(c)3 organizations with 500 employees or fewer as well as 501(c)19, veteran organizations that meet that same criteria in terms of size. That 500 employee threshold includes employees full-time, part-time, freelancers or contract employees. That's what's kind of unique about this. This is actually taking into account a variety of different employee, well not employee status, but I'm going to call it worker status because obviously employees are full or part-time. But does include some of those freelance and contract employees as well. This is a really important call out. You must be an operation on or before February 15th. So if your new organization, without any employees on payroll, then this is not going to be that program for you if it is actually after February 15th. Also, there are some criteria here. You have to, in good faith, certify that your organization is applying to this loan due to the economic conditions that have been brought about because of the Coronavirus. Also, the receipt of the loan must be used to retain those workers and maintain that payroll or make those mortgages, lease and utility payments. That's an important call out. It can't be used for other purposes. It's really a payment payroll protection plan. And your organization does not have to have another pending application for a loan. In other words, a lot of times with the SBA programs, you actually have to meet other loan requirements. Those are all being waived for this program. You don't have to do those first you can actually do PPP first. That's really important because the first eight weeks after the loan is issued, all of your loan cost up to those eight weeks could be forgiven if you meet some of the requirements that I'm going to talk about and your organization does not already have to have received another loan for similar purposes. So in other words, you can't have the same money being borrowed by some other way, to pay for the same thing. They want to make sure that it's really going to those costs.

OK. So we already went over the size, funding provided up to eight weeks of average payroll and other cost. I know that we, you know, we received some questions in advance about how that's calculated. We'll go over that in the Q&A section as well. But specifically, the really cool thing about PPP is that for those first eight weeks, after all that money can be forgiven. It's issued as a loan, but it will actually turn into a grant provided that you maintain the same level of people and the same amount on payroll. Dollar amount, Gross Dollar amount coming into it. There are some exclusions if you have any employees that are salaried in excess of $100,000, that portion over $100,00 is not going to be forgiven. That can't be included in the calculation even for the loan. And then you can't double-dip. In other words you can't use, again, be seeking the same money in different places.

OK. So that's really the fundamentals of PPP, Emergency Economic Injury Grants, EIDL. This is a true 30 year loan at a 3.75% percent. It is not forgivable. That is a key distinguishing factor. You have to repay this loan. But as you can imagine, a 30 year note at 3.75% - that's really, you know, that would be historically low mortgage rates. And that's kind of an asset-backed loan or you've got collateral on the line. This does not require any collateral. It does not require any personal guarantee, but that 3.75% over 30 years.

Justin Wheeler: Matt, real quick, on this, unless this changed as of last night. And we all know these things change. My understanding is that the EIDL is actually 2.7% for nonprofits. A 3.75% for businesses. So the rate is one point lower for nonprofit organizations.

Matt Scott:Things that didn't change. You just came more prepared than I did. So I really appreciate it. Sorry for the confusion, everybody. The other key aspect here that's really cool is that when you apply, which is a very lengthy application, you can get this application on SBA's website. It is a long application, unlike PPP, which can be done relatively quickly, this is a long application. But just for applying, you can get a $10,000 grant issued within, I think it's three days, pretty certain of that. Now I'm questioning what I got on here, but I think that's right. And then while your application is actually being processed by SBA and approved or denied that $10,000 grant does not have to be repaid if you are not issued the loan. And then even if you're issued the loan, they just reduce the loan amount. So there is a grant component as well. I already went over this, but it can be used for all these different things as long as it's separate from the same period of PPP. So think just easy way to think about that is after those eight weeks is really the easiest way to think about it.

OK. For the mid-sized nonprofits who are here again, mid-sized loan program, this is a direct loan program to nonprofits with 500-10,000 employees or 501 to 10,000 employees. The interest rate on this is 2%. No interest or principal is due for the first six months. So you do not have to make any payments at all for the first six months, which is great. Nonprofits seeking aid must agree to the following things. It must be used to retain 90% of your organization's existing workforce. You cannot outsource those jobs. Not important dividends or stock buybacks. That's really relevant only to the for-profit company. So I don't know why we stuck that in there. I apologize. All right. The tax deductions like we already talked about here, $300 available for taxpayers who claim a standard deduction. They will actually be able to take an additional deduction above their standard deduction. And then for those itemizing again, maybe these are your major donors, these are your legacy donors or potentially some people in your annual fund or recurring giving programs, 100% of their charitable contributions this year will be tax-deductible. So that is going to be an increase of 50%, which is potentially going to increase giving. Definitely recommend marketing that to those key segments at your nonprofit. Let them know because they may not be aware.

Matt Scott: OK, FAQs Justin wanted to ask you, do you want to. Do you want to kind of go through some of the FAQs that we already kind of came into this knowing and I can go over some of those? Or would you prefer that we dive into some of the, you know, questions we're getting asked here in live form.

Justin Wheeler: So let me ask a couple of questions that came in ahead of this and then we'll jump into the Q&A's that are coming in. We've got a lot of questions, over 50 questions already. So we've got a lot of work to do. And again, just for those of you that have chimed in a little bit late, you can go upvote questions so you can go read through and kind of vote for which questions are top of mind for you. We're going to start from the very top and make our way down.

So Matt, Let me ask a question that came in from Linda, Eastside Friends of Seniors. What options are available for nonprofits who local banks are not participating and other banks are limiting applicants to those with accounts with them.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Great, great question. I want to be honest with you. It's crazy. I'm here doing this webinar right now and I have a guide that we've produced to help with this topic. But we ourselves are in the same boat, the year-end for our business. So I feel your pain. There's a lot of uncertainty around how to get your application processed. There are some resources that I wanted to point out. I want to say that I personally have not used all of these so I can't claim all of them are great. But they did come from an SBA approved lender. The region's biggest lender where I am here in the Pacific Northwest. But these are entities that can give money to or approve applications across the country. So, and we will share these obviously after, Ka,, and So those are institutions that are approved by the SBA to actually process your applications. Also on the big bank side, U.S. Bank already has a very robust SBA program. So that might be an option. I'm going to be honest with you your community banks are probably completely overrun. I mean, I was in touch with 15 of them two weeks ago, over a weekend, just trying to get information for you all, as well as kind of understand what the process was going to be. Community banks are really overrun. So I would recommend potentially going to one of these other sources that I just talked about. I would also say, you know, basically you need to be like a dog on a bone. You can not give up. You need to you know, if you hear no from somebody, you gotta go to the next person on the list. And I would actually recommend to applying reaching out to a couple and starting the process. You can always let somebody know, hey, stop the process, I've got it processed by someone else. So I recommend that it's a good strategy, you've got to have a few different kind of, what do they call that, like things, Irons in the Fire.

Justin Wheeler: Also, the other thing that I've found is checking-in with your payroll company, who are using to run payroll? They also have great resources on where you can apply. And some of the payroll companies are actually also managing the process of checking with that. And then also, if your expense vendors, like if they use Expensify or Divvy, any of these services also have great resources available for where you can apply if they're not serving as one already. So definitely keep that in mind. Matt, there's a question you hit on that's a little further down in the Q&A, but important. People are asking, can you submit multiple applications? And so so you want to touch on that real quickly?

Matt Scott: Yeah. My understanding from talking with the various providers or processors is what I'll call them, because that's really what they are at this point. They're processing the applications. You can start multiple applications, the process with different processors. But as soon as one of those is submitted, you're confirmed. You have been approved by that institution and it is submitted to SBA. Then you should stop with the other people who are potentially processing it because you don't want to have multiple applications getting to SBA for two reasons. One, you won't be issued it twice and then two, it'll bog down the system and really prevent other people because SBA on average, they do 30 billion dollars worth of SBA loans a year in 12 months. This is 300 plus billion dollars in 3 months. So we all need to work together as a community to make sure we don't overrun SBA by having multiple applications from different providers. So that would be my advice to that is put a couple in motion, but as soon as you've got one that is approved by an approved institution and move forward with SBA, you need to let the others know that they can stand down.

Justin Wheeler: Awesome. Thank you. All right. Another question here from Barry, Executive Director. Everyone says to apply through a corporate bank. Chase told me to apply through SBA. I filled out the application on their website and submitted with all requested data. But nowhere did they ask what amount I am requesting. Did they just make that determination? Do they kick it to the bank? Lots of confusing and conflicting info.

Matt Scott: Yeah, my first thing is I'm very concerned if you're saying they did not ask for the amount because on the SBA application for PPP is a calculation that you need to fill out that says this is how much money I am requesting. So I'm not sure what form you specifically used, but we will be sure to provide, I'm sure of it Justin we'll send it out after, the actual SBA approved application that all of the institutions are now using early on a couple of weeks ago, if you did it then, or even a week ago. I mean, Justin and I have been talking about how fast this is moving. It was guidelines and they weren't final guidelines. So it's possible that you started that process before the final application was produced. But yeah, I know. I think there was another question, right, about how you calculate this. I don't know if you want to go into that now so this person would actually know how to calculate it. But I would say on surface, you did not fill out the application that you should have.

Justin Wheeler: I think the application was likely, that this person is referencing, was the EIDL application, because the EIDL doesn't require an amount as there's further kind of vetting required once it's submitted. But the PPP does require that calculation like you mentioned. So perhaps this person was asking about the EIDL application.

Matt Scott: Yep, you're absolutely right there. That application is quite a bit longer. You have to provide, my understanding from talking with SBA approved lenders that process EIDL applications. In general, these disaster applications is that you need to make a strong business case and be prepared to defend a dollar amount that your business has been economically impacted. That can actually be based off of two things. It does not have to be actual, it could be forecasted. So if you are forecasting a certain amount of money this year, you can use the forecasted amount. It doesn't have to just be 2019 actual numbers. It could be well I was forecasting 2019 plus 10% or whatever your growth rate was. And this is how it's been adversely impacted.

Justin Wheeler: Got it. Okay. We'll move on. I'm going to jump into Q&A tab now just because we're closing on 100 questions and you know we're going to do our best after this to answer questions and to bring in the appropriate sort of counsel as well for anything that, you know, where we can't answer today. Some questions we may not be able to answer and we'll let you know of those. But let's start with the top question here. Would like to know the difference between the $10,000 forgivable loan and the PPP loan. Are nonprofits able to apply for both?

Matt Scott: The $10,000 grant that you're talking about as a part of the EIDL is actually a forgivable grant. And that's just for having filled out and completed the application process. And if you are denied then that $10,000 will not need to be repaid. That is separate from PPP. The PPP forgivable portion of that loan is the amount spent on the first eight weeks on payroll, mortgage, rent, utilities - the aggregate total of that. So that's the distinction there. They are two different things. My recommendation would be to apply for PPP and then EIDL because that is how you would then be able to say, OK, the money I need beyond this initial two weeks is X and then that grant would be potentially issued as long as your application is processed. And all this is based on as long as the funds are available, they're talking about refilling the funds potentially. But there is a limit. It's not an unlimited pool of money.

Justin Wheeler: I saw something last night actually about adding $250 billion to the PPP just because of the demand. I think like on the first day, even though as of yet, nothing has been funded. But supposedly this week is when they'll start funding. So we'll keep our eyes peeled for that. We'll move on to the next question. Are all banks processing the PPP loans on the same schedule? Our bank has told us that nonprofits are last in line for these loans after small businesses, independent contractors, etc..

Matt Scott: The answer is no. They're not all processing them in the same order. The individual processors are allowed to kind of set their own criteria. Best I can tell, I know that for having multiple irons in the fire myself. And so there are certain things like where, if possible, start with your own bank, your existing bank, because ask them if they are processing these and then from there try and make a case. I mean, this is an opportunity or time when you need to look at your board of directors, your supporters, see if someone is, you know, is serving in a position of authority at one of these institutions because, you know, you really need to be kind of the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say. So the short answer is no. They are not all prioritizing people in the same way. Now, there is a caveat, like at the actual federal level, the contractors, the independent contractors are falling after the businesses process because the application opened for them slightly earlier. But I have not heard anything about nonprofits not being prioritized like businesses. Have you Justin heard anything about that?

Justin Wheeler: No. The only thing that I've seen is sole proprietors and contractors are on a different schedule. But nonprofits, small businesses, they're essentially counting as the same and processing at the same time. Now, like you mentioned, whoever is responsible for processing and we've seen this, whether or not it's ethical, as customers of that processor will likely get processed first. And, you know, hopefully, there's more guidance around that because that's not obviously fair if your bank isn't a processor. But I've also seen that the government is trying to mandate every community bank to also be a processor. So that's a development that may happen as early as today, actually. So we'll see. We're going to move on. I was told that if an org runs a fundraiser on Facebook, that would disqualify them from getting assistance through the CARES Act. Is that true?

Matt Scott: I do not believe that is true. I have heard nothing about, you're not allowed to fundraise in order to, specifically to Facebook fundraising. I haven't heard anything about it. You can go on and continue to try and make revenue, as far as I know.

Justin Wheeler: Yeah, no Facebook. I've actually looked into this, Facebook fundraising as long as you're a qualified nonprofit. Right. The funds you raise on Facebook are no different than the funds you raised through your website, through Peer-to-Peer campaigns and so forth. So don't stop raising money on Facebook. That sounds like someone trying to get too political on Washington's view on Facebook. Maybe. Alright for non-profits that do not have employees. Can they even qualify?

Matt Scott: Yeah, this is a great question. The short of it is under PPP you need to have employees on payroll before February 15th I think is the date there. That is my understanding is that you actually do have to in order for PPP but EIDL you do not need that payroll requirement.

Justin Wheeler: Next question in the application, we must certify that the current economic uncertainty makes this loan necessary to support the ongoing operations of the applicant. How is this defined? Do we qualify if we are not planning to lay off employees?

Matt Scott: Yes, you do qualify if you are not planning to lay off employees. How that is defined, it's somewhat loose, it's gray. You have to basically say...OK, one way you can determine this is you could say we were planning to raise $10 million this year, but because of the economic impact of Coronavirus, we're only going to raise $7 million. That's what we're now forecasting. While we had cash reserves so we're gonna keep all of our team members employed. But we had an adverse impact as a result. The answer is you can actually apply for this. There is a you know, you might want to ask yourself, if you are in an economic position where you can afford to continue to pay all of your employees and through your cash reserves. This is not an unlimited pool of funds. As Justin said, they're talking about increasing them. I happen to know one of our clients I was chatting about all this different stuff and kind of sending them information and they said, look, I think we're going to fare this better than most. So we're not going to actually apply for this because we're in a position where we could probably see this through. So I think there is some sort of responsibility that you might want to consider. But that's the short of it. That's how you might define the economic impact.

Justin Wheeler: Great, thank you. When does the eight weeks begin for the PPP?

Matt Scott: The moment that the loan is issued.

Justin Wheeler: Once the funds arrive in your bank is basically your countdown for 8 weeks. Alright for PPP loans, how do nonprofits fill out the owner section?

Matt Scott: That's a great question. I'm on the board of a nonprofit, we're getting this question asked. Our accountant in finance committee determined that you use the EIN and it does require that Social Security number to complete it, but it is not a guaranteed loan. So you can use either signing authority of the nonprofit, a chairman of the board or something like that. But it is not a personal guarantee. There is not even a credit check in order to process this. So you shouldn't be afraid of that.

Justin Wheeler: Awesome. Can you tell us about loan forgiveness for nonprofits? We obviously had sides about this, but maybe if you want to just kind of reiterate some of the forgiveness options that we know about today.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Under these programs, specifically nonprofits included if issued this loan, which is 2.5x  your average payroll cost, there's a lot into that calculation I could go into detail. But that amount is the loan amount, so 2.5x. Well, the eight weeks following that, from the day that that loan is funded, you receive those funds. The money spent there is forgivable and there is going to be an audit of whether or not you had the same number of employees as before the crisis and the same gross payroll cost during that eight weeks. And that is the portion that is forgivable so obviously, 2.5x that payroll and then you smush it down into eight weeks, potentially, you're not going to spend all of your loan amount. So that Delta, you're actually going to owe as a loan. So that's PPP,  the IDL is $10,000. If you submit an application, $10,000 will be granted to you within, they say three days. To Justin's point, I don't know if that actually happens within three days, but the point is it comes very quickly. And if you are not approved for that loan at that 2.75% then it is a grant. You do not need to pay it back. If you are, then my understanding is that it is reduced from the loan amount. But you also don't have to pay back that $10,000 portion.

Justin Wheeler: Awesome. I'm going to take a second. Just as we continue going through all these questions as a reminder that, you know, as you apply for these different programs, don't stop your normal fundraising activities. Right. I've seen a lot of nonprofits, I've heard a lot of nonprofits say and ask, should we be fundraising with what's going on around the country today? Does it make sense? Is it sensitive? And, you know, obviously, you have to know your donors. You have to know who's been impacted by this and who hasn't. Continue your normal fundraising operations unless you were doing a gala in the spring. That's going to change. That's going to be different. We don't want you stopping your fundraising activity. And at the end, we're actually going to talk about some campaigns that we've seen to be very successful during this time. So I just wanna encourage everyone that, don't put all your eggs in one basket. There's obviously a lot of opportunity potential here, but continue running your business, continue running your nonprofit as you were prior to COVID-19. OK. So if you have contractors that we pay monthly. Do we apply for money for them as well only? Or is it only for full-time employees?

Matt Scott: Yeah, this is actually a great question. There is some confusion around it. When you go to fill out your application, my understanding and I want to be clear, we should've said this at the start. I myself am not an attorney and I'm not giving legal advice. And so you should check with counsel as well as with your bank. They're not going to let you process or one of these processes aren't gonna approve you, basically for something that doesn't qualify. But my understanding is that you are able to include those costs and that they as well as 1099 could apply for them themselves too. But keep in mind that you do need to maintain that amount should you be seeking that funding. Justin, do you have a different understanding of that.

Justin Wheeler: No, it's you know, payroll is loosely defined in regards to, you know, like who are the people you are paying to run the organization? So contractors, we have seen contractors can be thrown into that calculation. We are Wells Fargo customer, they are no longer accepting applications for PPP, where do you suggest applying where I don't have to be an existing customer? So maybe trying to just repeat some of the existing - the first question we answered.

Matt Scott: Yeah. We'll send these URLs, but,, and This is a list that was provided by an SBA approved lender as third parties that you might want to consider, again if you weren't here earlier when we discussed this, I recommend that you start the process with multiple because everyone's overrun.

Justin Wheeler: A question I see here in the comments that was applicable to something we said a few minutes ago. The question is, has anyone seen good examples of outreach to donors letting them know about this tax change? And I wanted to real quickly address that because I felt like a nonprofit that I'm on the board of did something really powerful. They looked at like obviously, you know, some of their largest donors, they went to the board and said, hey, we want to make sure that our board is aware that, you know, these tax credits exist for you. So that changes your giving, if that accelerates maybe what you were going to give, you know, next year. And you want to do that now. This is great for tax planning purposes. So I would start with the board and start with, you know, donors that have high capacity because this is going to be something that really benefits them in that regard.

Okay. So can you apply for the EIDL and only accept the $10,000 advance?

Matt Scott: My understanding is that you can, that basically that $10,000 will be issued. But if you are approved for it, then you don't have to actually take out the funding like you will have to sign for that after the application process. So the short of it is, yes. You are able to do that is my understanding.

Justin Wheeler: Can a small nonprofit with no payroll, all volunteers who run a thrift store for the benefit of our local hospital, apply for CARES Act for our ongoing expenses of rent, utilities, insurance, etc. If you do not have any payroll cost or human capital cost, as as Justin described it, it's kind of loosely defined. But if you don't have that, human capital cost is kind of what I'll categorize it as, prior to the 15th of February. You're not going to be able to apply for this program, but the EIDL would probably be the right program to apply for.

Is there any maximum deduction? I'm going to go rapid-fire because we've got a lot of questions and we've got about fifteen minutes. So I'll chime in if I need to, but I'm going to keep going. Is there a maximum to the 100% deduction for charitable donations for those who itemize their charitable deductions? Does this apply to both individual donors and corporate donors or only to individuals?

Matt Scott: This is applied to individual donors who are itemizing their deductions, whether they're married, filing jointly, separate, etc.. And as far as I understand, there is no maximum that you can do. 100% would be deductible as opposed to 50%

Justin Wheeler: Do you know if the PPP defines utilities to include water, telephone, etc?

Matt Scott: It does. Yeah. It actually loosely defines this. I believe it also applies for internet, telecommunications, all those sorts of utilities.

Justin Wheeler: So my question in regards to the COVID-19 economic injury disaster loan application under business activity, there isn't a nonprofit option. What's the best category to use when it prompts the detailed business activity?

Matt Scott: I think that that would be, my experience, you can actually use your payroll company should have a similar code that you can use for your business. I would recommend starting with that one. I mean, without knowing specifics about your organization, it's difficult for me to answer. But like, you know, this is what you should use. But you can start with that payroll code. And then from there, I would say picking the one that best fits into your organization's programmatic work.

Justin Wheeler: Awesome. Okay. So this one is, this is great. So just today we received notice, congratulations, that we have been approved for an EIDL and we're told the amount we were eligible for is $15,000. We have already applied for PPP through our lender and we're told we are in queue and we'll hear back soon. If we accept the $15,000 from EIDL can we still get the full 2.5x from the PPP?

Matt Scott: The main question is when you applied were you planning to use that for the same purpose? So the first eight weeks payroll, mortgage, utilities, if you are planning to use that money over that first eight weeks for that, then you should not answer the question in good faith, that you plan on using PPP for that purpose. But if you want to use that EIDL funding for this payroll, mortgage, utility-related costs. After that eight week period that would be used for different money than the PPP, then you should be able to get both.

Justin Wheeler: Are EIDL loans forgivable?

Matt Scott: No, no they are not. It is a loan. $10,000 is a grant. The actual loan amount is not forgivable.

Justin Wheeler: And it's a 2.75% rate. I heard in the webinar yesterday that the SBA has capped EIDL loans to $25,000 due to the overwhelming demand. Is this true? I have not seen that to be the case. I haven't seen any formal information about that being true. Matt, have you have you seen anything on on that?

Matt Scott: No, I have not.

Justin Wheeler: Okay. Our payroll changed significantly at the beginning of 2020. So we asked for a loan in the amount of our current payroll, not 2019. Might that be accepted?

Matt Scott: Yes. The short is it might be accepted. You can use 2019. You can use, also some institutions are looking at the last twelve months. So yes.

Justin Wheeler: For the PPP option if an employee voluntarily leaves during the eight weeks. How does that loan forgiveness work for a case like that?

Matt Scott: Yeah my understanding is if you do not have the same number of employees or the same gross amount, so maybe a certain employee gets more, but your total number and your average payroll costs is the same, that will reduce the portion of your loan that would be forgivable. So that means that if you had 10 employees and one of them voluntarily left within that period of eight weeks, then the portion used for the other nine would still remain forgivable, but they're actually, they're able to calculate it during the audit that's going to come.

Justin Wheeler: How can nonprofits that are fiscally sponsored projects utilize loans through the CARES Act?

Matt Scott: Gosh, I don't know the answer to that.

Justin Wheeler: Yeah, I mean, it's very similar. Like this is actually something that a lot of, the parallel here is a lot of venture-backed companies are asking this question in regards to eligibility because it's you know, you're backed by a venture capital fund and you have this minimum like five hundred, you know, headcount sort of rule. Is that across the whole portfolio? Do you look at the one venture-backed or is it per company? In this case, you're going to definitely want to talk with your CPA or legal to get that answer, because I'm not sure on that one either. Do individual states have similar programs for nonprofits that might offer different funding if the federal program benefits don't work for our organization?

Matt Scott: Yes. Not just states, but also city level. I wanted to call this out. I don't, I can't pretend to know all the programs available in your city, but I know here in Portland, Oregon, where CauseMic is there are different programs. Prosper Portland is like a local kind of initiative to help fund minority-owned businesses and different things of that nature, underrepresented groups. They're issuing grants. Another institution is issuing loans right now, actually in grants. So I think you should absolutely check what opportunities are available locally at the state and municipality level. I'm sorry. I don't know specifically about where you are, but absolutely there are certain states and cities that are offering programs.

Justin Wheeler: Great. We got a couple more questions here. Matt, we're a fairly new nonprofit established before February 20. We were slated to hire staff this year, but had to cancel four out of five fundraisers, which will not enable us to hire. Original guidelines from U.S. Chamber is that we would qualify for PPP, but it seems like they have restricted it too. So should we have had folks on hand?

Matt Scott: I think the last part of that was also a little bit confusing. Like more strategically, should you have? But I think my understanding is that, yeah, you actually have to have human capital cost if you don't than existing to that February, if you don't, then PPP isn't the right program. But it sounds like your organization's plans were adversely impacted by this disaster and that is exactly what that EDIL is all about. So obviously worth looking into there.

Justin Wheeler: Great. So this is a good question and it's kind of asked several different ways throughout. So let's spend some time here. I've been confused about the timing the EIDL arrives faster, supposedly, but it incorporates the PPP, I think. Can you go into a little more detail about the timing and rolling out into the other?

Matt Scott: Yeah, actually I wouldn't necessarily categorize EDIL as a fast process, or PPP actually. I mean both of them. PPP is designed where it's supposed to take very little time to complete that application process. I will tell you that, ourselves, we took a day or two kind of getting all the different paperwork prepared. So I think that the fact that it will take eight minutes to complete is probably not true for most people. But the application process is meant to be fast on PPP. They're eliminating a lot of the normal restrictions for SBA programs like you have to have exhausted all other loan options before. And the same is true with EDIL, that process does take longer. But as you could tell from earlier, someone had already been funded on that EDIL program or approved at least and now are pending on PPP. So the short answer is if possible, you should apply for both and know that it's probably at this point, if you have not yet applied, as you can tell, it's really difficult to get someone to take your application. So I would say get on it as soon as possible and apply for both.

Justin Wheeler: Great. Thank you, Matt. Thank you so much. We're actually going to wrap it up on the Q&A. I know that you wanted to maybe talk a little bit briefly about some fundraising strategies that you've seen to be effective that you guys have been a part of helping build and create. So you want to maybe spend a minute or two talking about that before we wrap up?

Matt Scott: Yeah, absolutely. Like Justin said, it is super important that you did not stop communicating to your supporters and soliciting support from your supporters and in doing so in a tasteful way.I know Justin and I both serve on the boards of nonprofits, and we're also obviously helping a bunch of organizations navigate through this uncertain time. You know, what I think you should be doing is really thinking about how are we shifting programmatically to meet our stakeholders, the beneficiaries of our organization. How are we shifting our programming to meet their needs in this unique case? So if you're working with houseless populations or you're working with, you know, vulnerable, you know, children or something, you have to shift the way that you're delivering your programing. And it really behooves you to communicate that with your supporters. People want to hear that you have a plan, that they are still a hero in that story, in that plan, and that they can support you in those endeavors. So two campaigns we're running right now that we're just like really excited about one of them programmatically where what's interesting about this is that all the leads that are being generated right now are future donor leads. And so you kind of want to make sure that you have your technology in order, something like the Funraise platform where you're able to take those leads and easily solicit support from them and communicate impact to them through this process. So what we're doing right now for, is we're taking all the potential shelters that are closing their doors because of COVID-19, they're forced to euthanize the animals. We built a Salesforce instance in 48 hours for them that mapped geolocated all these individual fosters that are signing up and there's over 20,000 foster signed up 5/10 thousand a day. And then it automatically maps them and then it says, OK, within 20 miles, here are these potential people who want to foster an animal. And then what you're thinking about is how do I then communicate the impact of that program to those people, because those are your future donors. And then how do you communicate that shift to all of your existing donors? I think that's really the key. Adapt, but communicate your plan to adapt. And ask for support because there are still a lot of people who are in a position to support. Obviously, there are people who are not.

Justin Wheeler: Totally. One of our customers DIG DEEP, I shared this a few weeks ago on the live Q&A, but their big annual campaign, World Water Day, you know, was a week after really this kind of broke out across the United States. And they found a way to tie in their messaging to what's happening. And for them, it was, you know, how can communities with lack of clean water safely wash their hands and, you know, in a situation like today. So they tied in hand-washing, right. To the necessity of clean water and they blew past their goal. In fact, they had to like set a new goal for different times, raised over $200,000 in less than 24 hours. And I think as part of that success was the messaging of tying it into what's happening today, how, you know, not washing your hands could be a cause for spreading the virus. And so I think it's sitting around the table and getting creative with how you message it. Not every nonprofit will have that sort of angle, but that doesn't mean you still can't fundraise. So, Matt, thank you for joining today. It was super helpful. Lots of good feedback in the comments section. Lots of questions to look through still. We're going to, for those of you that are still on, we're going to send out a recording, send out the deck, the slides, and also we'll put together some content for LinkedIn with Q&A's and so forth. So we'll definitely be pushing information out if you are an organization that's looking for consultation around pivoting your fundraising strategy CauseMic is a great organization to talk with. We'll make sure that their website is linked to the follow-up email from here. Also, if you're in need of technology to take your fundraising digital and to get more virtual Funraise is also a great option. You can go online. We have a COVID-19 response page where you can actually learn about the different things that we're offering as a result of what's going on in the world today. So check out our site - we'll include that in the email. Thank you all for tuning in. We hope it was helpful. And we will be back live next Wednesday with a new topic. Take care.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit. This podcast is brought to you by your friends at Funraise. Nonprofit fundraising software, built by nonprofit people. If you'd like to continue the conversation, find me on LinkedIn or text me at 562-242-8160. And don't forget to get your next episode the second it hits the internet. Go to and sign up for email notifications today. See you next time!