Alyssa Sweetman · Diversity and Charity Program Manager, Twitch | Sit down with Alyssa from Twitch, the world's most popular live streaming service, and Justin Wheeler, Funraise CEO, for an honest talk about livestream fundraising.

So you want to check out livestream fundraising.

You've heard about the $30 million raised for charity by Twitch streamers in 2017, the $40+ million they raised in 2018, and then $55 million they raised in 2019. It makes sense that you want a piece of that growth.

Step into our office.

We've got Alyssa Sweetman (@alykkat) and Justin Wheeler providing insider tips on how to (and how not to!) identify and reach out to streamers, escaping the Gamer persona fallacy, and the 3 things you need to get started with low-dollar, livestreaming, influencer fundraising.

Justin: Alyssa, thank you so much for joining us. For the listeners today, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are? What Twitch is and what you do at Twitch?

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Alyssa Sweetman and you might see me go by Aly online from time to time. And that's because my online handle is @alykkat. And so when I meet people in person, they just assume my first name is Aly, so I just roll with it because it's way easier. I've been at Twitch since June of 2017 and my role at Twitch has evolved just from charity to also doing diversity programing. So I do, with charities, I focus on education. I teach nonprofits how to interact with the community, best practices and kind of teach them a little bit about the platform. It can be overwhelming. It's like using any website for the first time. And it's, you know, user-generated content. So there's a lot of it. Twitch is just a platform for people to create content. Live content.

Justin: So what drew you to work at Twitch?

Alyssa: So it's really interesting. I have played video games since I was a small child. My dad got me into it back when there is that block Sega portable, thing. And the battery lasts for like two hours. So you had to sit by a plug if you wanted to play it. So it's essentially useless. So I've played video games my entire life. And when I was in college, my partner at the time was like, oh, you should stream on twitch in your spare time. You're already playing video games, you might make some money off of it. I don't think that my partner had in mind that I was going to get into a charity streaming when I started. Shortly after I joined a group and I was like, oh, wow, charity streaming. I didn't know that this is a thing. You're telling me I can basically volunteer without getting off my butt? I'm down for this. So I like dived headfirst into I got really active with the org when the org kind of dissolved for various reasons, I didn't want to stop. So I founded another one with my friend. We call it Galiant Gamers. Mainly because we just wanted something that's a GG. And shortly after we started that, my boss reached out to me and was like, I'm looking for a second person to work with nonprofits. I'm reaching out to people in the community that really know nonprofits, the space and how to work with influencers, and so is invited to fill out an application and interview. During this time I was a second-grade teacher, so that's kind of how I shifted to that.

Justin: It's super fascinating. I remember, so I used to work at Invisible Children, and we got coined for a while for promoting clicktivism. Like, oh, I give all these young people like, get them to care about something, but all they do is like share posts and write comments, you know, and so forth. But what we've seen over the last decade is that that these have become some of the strongest advocates for social causes and so you talked about charity streaming. So can you expand on that? What does that mean? What would it actually goes into charity streaming and what why is it something that you're so passionate about?

Alyssa: So in terms that nonprofits will understand, it is crowdfunding on the Internet with a live feed, basically. And the person who's in the live feed is advocating for people watching the live feed to donate money. In a little bit more marketing influence or terms, it's somebody who's creating content and they have prepared incentives, rewards, and they are asking the people watching, their fan base, to donate to a cause that they're passionate about. Ever since I was a kid, always been really passionate about helping people and I like the idea of being able to bake it into your everyday life because it can be really hard to go out of your way to do something. And so making it easy, like you're already streaming, already playing video games or painting or whatever it is you're doing all your life streaming, you know, you can plan it out and add in a little extra fun and raise money for charity.

Justin: And how is like the culture like with all sorts of content creators and broadcasters on Twitch? Would you say that like this idea of like streaming for charity is a big part of like the Twitch culture? Or is it a newer kind of like seeping in and more content creators want to become a part of it? Like, what's your sense or like how important is this to the Twitch community?

Alyssa: So I would say that it was a slow roll first. You know, starting back 2011 when Twitch launched, like looking at the numbers, it was, you know, pretty low and looking at it. Now we did 50... the community raised $55 million in 2019, which is, you know, that's crazy. And in 2018 I believe we raised $46 million if I'm remembering that number correctly, it was either $42 or $46 million. But either way that's like a huge growth and I would say that it's a big part of Twitch's, identity and culture but given that we have two or three million content creators on that platform, there's still so many more people that could get involved.

Justin: So what would you say, like in terms of because we talk about for non-profits, there's obviously all sorts of different ways to fundraise, right, whether it's online or offline and so forth? We've been talking a lot here, Funraise about the importance of nonprofits to really start tapping into this market because it seems relatively untapped. And also, it's a demographic of people who care about creating content. Right? And nonprofits usually, typically should care about creating content. And some of them are very bad at it. But that's okay, that's a podcast for another day. But like where do you see the market going with like streaming? Do you see it to continue to grow? Do you see it becoming a mainstream fundraising channel for nonprofits or what are your thoughts on that?

Alyssa: In general, we are talking a lot about live stream fundraising, but I like to take it even a step further back and look at a bigger picture and think about it as influencer marketing. So thinking of it as influencer fundraising. And I really see that it's something that can be taken off. I think a lot of nonprofits, in my experience, what they're typically afraid of are getting started is not super scalable because it's about building one on one relationships. Then there's the issue of, well, if this influencer is fundraising for me, does this mean that I'm endorsing everything this fundraiser does? And then particularly with Twitch, we get lots of questions about things like the content. The game content that they're playing, whether it be a shooter or a horror game or things like that. Nonprofits really want to control the content of the influencer, which when, you know, speaking with them and explaining to them that you're not asking that you're not paying them to do something for you, you're not asking them to create new content. You're just simply asking them to add a fundraising component to their stream. And, you know, you can't really ask someone to change their content. It won't go well with their fan base. And a lot of nonprofits really get nervous about those factors.

Justin: So maybe from like from your experience in seeing a nonprofit that's done this really well, that hasn't come in and have tried to hijack like the content. Do you have an example, a specific example or, from a high-level perspective of like what's a nonprofit that's been successful, at like reaching out to an influencer and allowing them to continue just doing their stream. And what were the results and how was money actually raised through, you know, live streaming video games? Like walk us through that. Like, I think the biggest question mark nonprofits have is like, wait a second, you're telling me that people are going to donate money watching someone play a game for my charity? How does, like help us unpack that to understand how that works?

Alyssa: Yeah. So I think the first part of it is, when I work with a nonprofit, I try to explain to them that the game or the content they're creating is just the avenue of the content creation. And to think more of each individual streamer as a mini business owner. They're creating marketing. Their branding. They're making deals for themselves. They're managing relationships. They're doing so much more than what you see online. And in some cases, you know, they design their own stuff and do their own video editing. And usually that kind of clicks with them like, okay, this is just like I would work with a celebrity or a business. And so it starts off with their like, so how do I identify creators that might be passionate about my cause? And I say, well, unless you follow them on Twitter and they explicitly say it, you have no way. I was like, if you see an email, feel free to email them. If their DMs are open, feel free to DM them. And I always kind of set the expectation that creators, particularly large ones, get hit up all the time and to not be too upset if they don't get back to you. And especially a lot of feedback I get from creators is, if I don't email back, it's because I don't want to say no. But I don't have the bandwidth or maybe it's on it cause they're too passionate about it. Two nonprofits that I think that I worked with the Wounded Warrior Project and Movember have really done great jobs. Movember started off a little bit slow and then they've been working with them all the time that I've been at Twitch. And they've really grown so much so that they hired someone to manage the relationships with influencers in Twitch Space and nonprofits that do well typically hire someone.

Justin: Someone to manage that. I mean, like you would hire someone to manage, you know, a group of donors or someone specific. And does that person, if I'm going to hire someone, does that person have to come from like the gaming industry or what would you say are the core competencies or characteristics of the type of person that you should hire?

Alyssa: So if you can't hire from the community, that's always good. But typically what people will do is they'll hire someone in the community that they think has a lot of clout or a lot of reach and kind of lean on them to know what to do when they get hired. But the types of questions I tell nonprofits are, tell me a type of program you think would run. I would ask them basically marketing based questions. I would ask them questions you might see and go to market or program proposal. I would give them a scenario, I would say like an example that's pretty easy to use is the Alzheimer's Association has the longest day. If I was working there and interviewing someone to take on that program, I would say, can you think of some ways that we can incorporate or market to streamers to participate, to fundraise, on the longest day? And really understanding that just because someone in the streaming industry has a little bit of knowledge or they are a streamer, it doesn't necessarily mean that they would be good to hire. And on the flip side of that, hiring someone directly from who has a very heavy marketing background, also from traditional companies, has a hard time working with influencers because again, they want to put the people they're working with are asking to fundraise in this box. So it's a little bit of a balance. You're looking for someone that's a self-starter, that is creative with coming up with ideas and has a little bit of a marketing background. And if they don't have a marketing background, at least somebody who can formulate a plan.

Justin: Right. Okay. And we hear often, you know, livestreaming is great for fundraising and a question I have is two years ago I was watching a livestream from charity: water and I was watching it virtually and they were raising money for it for their cause. One of the program officers came on on camera angles like in Uganda or something like that. And it was they were getting ready to dig a well, and they wanted the people at this gala in New York City to basically see water shoot up from the ground because it was $20,000, or something like that, to build a wall. And so they were trying to take their audience live to the actual work on the ground. It was it was impactful. They raised, you know, millions of dollars that night. Do you see anyone on Twitch or any nonprofits that are using Twitch as a platform to also, like, share, to like use it as just marketing their programs or their work or as an engagement strategy with maybe their support base? Do you see any sort of use case like that or is there opportunities for there to be use case like that?

Alyssa: I would say that that's the one place that nonprofits are not utilizing well enough. I would say the best ones I've seen so far are nonprofits that are focused with animals because they're looking at showcasing shelters or I'm working with an elephant sanctuary and I'm working on helping them get their camera feeds up on Twitch. But there's a huge opportunity to showcase on Twitch what the work is that they're doing. I think the thing that makes it hard is that a live audience, think about it like your favorite TV show. Your favorite TV show comes on at the same day, same hour every week. You know, when you can watch it. And for people who create live content, it's important that whatever schedule they make, they kind of stick to you. So non-profits might not have enough people or the bandwidth to create regular content, even if the content is only once or twice a week. That consistency is really key.

Justin: Yeah, make sense of it. You know, when someone's going live. So you're going to tune in that a reminder, whatever it takes to watch.

Alyssa: There is a rescue zoo that I worked with in Denmark. There Twitch channel is play, play rescue, play live rescue, no play rescue. And it's a guy who's he inherited his family's zoo and he turned it into a rescue zoo, taking in animals around Europe that shouldn't be there. And he mostly plays video games and talks about his work. But a couple times a month, he'll like do an IRL stream where he goes around the zoo and he'll like talk about the different animals they have and stuff like that. And that's, that's really cool.

Justin: Yeah. I think that, what you see with nonprofits and you think about creating like a fundraising strategy as a nonprofit, like the thing that you want to do is you want to create a strategy where you're not always just asking someone to give, right? Where you're actually getting them bought into what you're actually doing and accomplishing. And so it seems like Twitch would just be such a great opportunity for organizations to build up an audience, right? And it's an audience that maybe it's harder to be as consistent as, you know, some of these other broadcasters and influencers. But if you're able to create some marketing around when you're going to go live and so forth, it seems like it could be a really good opportunity for organizations to build transparency with their donor base. To actually show the proof of like what their doing. Sounds like the zoo ad was doing just that. And I wonder if that would impact next time they would to fundraise, you know, through Twitch or through an influence on Twitch...

Alyssa: Oh, absolutely.

Justin: If it would impact their overall fundraising efforts.

Alyssa: If you're looking at the way generations donate, I think the first thing I remember being super successful in terms of something that was ridiculously overpriced, but it gave somebody something somewhere else as tom toms (Toms) Remember their shoes when it first came out, they're really nice shoes now, but when they first came out, they were these really crappy canvas, uncomfortable shoes. And all my friends have them and they were like so excited because, you know, I was in school and they're so excited, they're like, yeah, my mom got me these shoes and, you know, it provides X number of pairs of shoes for somebody in another country who doesn't have access to shoes. And if you look at it, people will spend, Millennial's and Zoomers, which is apparently the official name for Gen Z now.

Justin: Zoomers? I did not know that.

Alyssa: Yeah, they're the equal opposites of Boomers, apparently.

Justin: Interesting. Zoomers. They got a better title than us, Millennials.

Alyssa: Yeah, Millennial has just become this catchall phrase. And so is like also the phrase, okay Boomer, I'm just so over all these little marketing things but ah...

Justin: Would you say, what's the primary generation on Twitch? Is it Zoomers or is it a mixture of...

Alyssa: It's really a mixture. I think the last public piece of information I saw was our average user is 15 to 36 or 37.

Justin: And I think that's another reason, when I've talked to nonprofit's about specifically like livestream fundraising or just like more low dollar fundraising is what I call it. Like the resistance we often get is, you know, a 15-year-old doesn't have any money. Like is a 15-year-old really going to donate? And you know...

Alyssa: Their parents have money.

Justin: Exactly. They have disposable income that's greater than a lot of young adults. And because, they get excited about something, passionate and they'll go ask their parents for $15, $20, whatever it might be and so I think that targeting young donors is such an important strategy because they're the gateway to larger donations and so forth.

Alyssa: Nonprofits will also be like, oh, we don't really have an audience in the Twitch market. And I'm like, do you know how many people in your life play video games? Do you know how many people know of Twitch? And it's something that people don't talk about. I remember when I was teaching and I was segueing into this and I told everyone I was leaving to do it. And even before this happened, what did we do our Friday roundup of, you know, what does everyone got going on this weekend? And I'd be like, oh, I have a charity gaming event and I would always get weird looks. It was something they had a hard time comprehending. And so it's really easy to dismiss it but that's because everyone's looking at us as gamers and I try to tell people, don't use the word gamer, use streamer, broadcaster, content creator. Something that helps you remember that they're small business owners. And when they look at it in that approach, they tend to shift.

Justin: Okay. Interesting. I think that's, you know, within like our own customer base, you know, looking at like millions of donors. And we've had this conversation when we were building out an integration with Twitch, is there any way for us to find out if any of the donors in our database gamers? And would they be excited about, you know, telling their organization ... or I shouldn't say gamers after what you just told me, but influencers or creators. Anyways, so could they help organizations, you know, get past this barrier of like we don't know anyone in the space, it's not our market. That could be interesting.

Alyssa: Some organizations, some nonprofits do a really great job when they get reached out to. They're like, oh, okay. I didn't realize that this is something and they'll sign up on a platform that allows for fundraising on Twitch. And I just do want to clarify for anybody that's listening or watching that that Twitch is not the fundraising platform. You won't raise any money through Twitch services. All streamers use a third party service. And then some are really resistant and they're like gaming doesn't align with our brand. This is not something that we're we're interested in. And then, you know, there'll be an article that comes out and so and so did a charity stream and it raised, you know, $30,000 and how exciting that is. And then that same nonprofit will be like, okay, maybe gaming is part of our thing.But like I said, part of that whole mindset is like shifting from gamers to content creators. They're gamers, but they're also business owners. And I think that I'm a really strong believer in the word choices we use helps shape how we view things. Because even when I think of a gamer, I think of like me on Saturday morning eating cereal and playing video games even as an adult. Gamers don't necessarily need to be people who are livestreaming either. That's even a separate market from influencers. And a fun tidbit I always like to share is that, I read an article put out by a gamer research company that says that women with, stay at home wives or mothers are the largest segment of gamers in America.

Justin: Really? Interesting.

Alyssa: The reason being is that when people think of gamers, they don't count Candy Crush or Clash of Clans or the word search puzzles on their phone. And it's like those are all games, too.

Justin: Does it count that the very last game I played, the very last video game I played, was Goldeneye on Nintendo 64? Would you consider me a gamer?

Alyssa: Yeah.

Justin: Yeah? I loved that game. That was my Saturday and Sundays.

Alyssa: I remember we had a TV and, you know, you paused it. You never turned it off.

Justin: You never turned it off? So you would pause wherever you were in the game, you'd pause it?

Alyssa: No you don't turn it off!

Justin: Oh, interesting. Wow. That is next level. One thing that non-profit's I also, you know, about talk a lot about when they talk about livestreaming is they reference St. Jude. Because St. Jude I think is, you know, raised tens of millions. And it's been on Twitch, not through Twitch, but utilizing the Twitch platform. How they've been so effective at being able to raise as much that they have raised? And it's typically in like a 24 hour period or something like that. So tell us, what is the secret sauce there?

Alyssa: Yeah. So you're you're mixing two up there. So the one that's a 24 hour period is Extra Life. And I believe they were the very first organization fundraising on Twitch. And for Extra Life in particular, it was kind of like a lightning strike. They had already developed a program called Extra Life. It's the CMNH Hospital Group. And that was born out of playing video games and board games with your friends and getting people in real life to donate to your cause before Twitch even existed. So they already had like a base of people who are doing it, but they weren't doing it online. And so when Twitch came up, it made easy sense to translate. So it's like a really easy lightning strike for St. Jude. They were the second nonprofit to get involved on Twitch. And it started with, I love the way Zach tells his story. He got started, he was working on their website and he was like, hey, you know, this is gonna be big. And St. Jude is like, we're not even sure what you're talking about. Sure. Go try it out. And he did. And it's wildly successful. He's a wonderful human and kind of a secret sauce for St. Jude. It's just that one on one building relationships, talking with people, really spreading the mission and understanding that it's, you're not talking to a board member, you're talking to another person. And you've got to connect on a person level. One of the things nonprofits ask me is like, oh, should we start our gaming Twitter? And I'm like, no. Don't treat it as an other. You don't have a Twitter for people who do walkathons and Twitter for people who do crowdfunding. Like it's just a part of it. St. Jude, Save the Children, Wounded Warrior Project, Movember, all of those and others have how to get involved and on their how to get involved page it says do a livestream fundraiser. And it kind of connects to whatever their third party platform is for those tools.

Justin: So for an organization that's thinking about, you know, trying out livestream fundraising in 2020, where should they get started. What are the best three things that you could say would help them get on the right track?

Alyssa: So first and foremost, I would say the first step is to write a simple one-pager and don't go to their website and copy all of the hundreds of programs that you have. Some nonprofits have so many programs. Think about the ones that are most impactful and make the most sense and write bite-sized blurbs. I always make the joke that the streamer needs to be able to remember the sentence and they need to be able to say it in between 360 no scope, their next rank up, whatever else they've got going on their stream because when they're doing a charity stream, it's an addition to everything else they're already doing. So make the information easy to remember, make it an impactful impact statement. I always talk about the way an impact statement is worded, it's funny that we're talking about RAD earlier, my favorite impact statement is from RAD. So their impact statement that they tell streamers is for every $35 raised, RAD is able to provide a therapy session for someone in need. Name of the nonprofit. How much the price point of the donation that get something done. What does it do? - Somebody in need, who needs mental health assistance. And so it's really easy to get behind. And so making sure you have those points are really great.

Justin: Right. And then the the the influencer as they're streaming has these bullet points, has this information to...

Alyssa: And they'll use as much or as little as they want. So that's the first part. Make sure that information is there. The second part and I'm assuming that they've already signed up on a platform that they can connect with and that streamers can connect with and use, the second thing is, is that when you're reaching out to creators, just be really honest. One of the most interesting aspects of seeing things on Twitter is when a company does a mass email and it says hi, insert streamer name, I was watching your stream other day and I noticed that your stream is really great and I think you'd be really great for this program. People tend to screenshot those, mark out like emails and names, and then post them and say, hey, did anyone else get this email? And then it turns into this really long thread. So I always tell non-profit's be honest. Yes. Send me an email saying, Hey, I found your email on Twitter. I found your email on your Twitch channel. We're getting started in the space. Authenticity is the best tool anyone can have. And I have one person focus on it or two people, somebody for a face. Every single one of the successful nonprofits has a single person that streamers can say, Oh, I know so-and-so at that nonprofit. And you know, for St. Jude it's Zach for Extra Life, there's a few of them, there's Lou and Brandon. For Stand Up to Cancer, there's Andy. Like I could list off the people that handle these programs and they're the people that interact in-face because it's kind of counterintuitive to most nonprofits the way they think, but since it's an influencer, they also need to be influenced by the person. And so a nameless organization, unless they're super passionate about the cause, is not as likely to move the needle as becoming friends with someone because then you become friends with that person. You care about their program being successful. You care about their nonprofit. And then it's really easy to buy into what that nonprofit is doing, even if you already care about it. Because when you think about it, what's preventing any creator from going to any of your basic, albeit boring crowdfunding pages, creating crowdfunding page and asking people to donate? What's the difference there? And the same thing with viewers donating to streamers campaigns. They could easily go to a nonprofit's website and make that donation. So being mindful of the fact that this is completely different and your relationship building is less with donors and more with the people asking for the donation. Those the first two things. And then the third thing is I appreciate the influencer's you want to work with. Through either your personal Twitter, I recommend people that are running the programs, like put it in your Twitter bio, get active on Twitter with streamers. Or if you can, from your main organization's, Twitter when someone tweets out, oh, I just raised $1,000 for AFSP and AFSP responding saying thanks that's great can really boost, one, people see that AFSP is interested...

Justin: Still adds an element of like social pressure too. I mean, not social pressure, but like social recognition that like people being recognized for their contribution and it's fun to be part of that.

Alyssa: And when you think about it, there's for every issue you can think of, there's probably 10 to 100 nonprofits working on that issue. And so what differentiates them is do they recognize the streaming space. Because it's a new industry in particular, people are looking for the people that are paying attention to their industry. And aren't treating them more like an ATM or number. One piece of feedback I get from streamers is people who participate in other fundraising campaigns, right as soon as they finish with that fundraising campaign, they'll get 10 emails from 10 different nonprofits asking them to do one. Yeah, and it's really interesting because I don't think nonprofits, when they remind them that there's a business owner, there's another element of that. When a streamer does, so streamers create content for free. All of the money they make is voluntary based on their viewers. So tips or subscriptions or people who cheer bits on their channel. And when a streamer asks for donations to charity, they're essentially saying, I don't want any money today or however long. Please, please, please donate it to this charity. This is what I'm doing. And they put a lot of work into it. Often they spend money to buy things like bean boozled, or pies to put on their face or other incentives that they do. They dye their hair. I've seen people get tattoos, shave their eyebrows, all of these really crazy things and in addition to that, they're asking people not to tip them, not to give them money. And I always say, can you think of another job that asks you to come into work, do your work, and then give up your income that day? For something.

Justin: No, that's crazy.

Alyssa: So anytime, when looking for streamers to work with, be mindful of, are you emailing someone that you are emailing because you just saw them complete a campaign? It's kind of one of those things of...

Justin: The same way in which you would go about, you know, prospecting for, you know, for donors to your organization. Right. The way that you would work in cultivating relationships, building relationships, be respectful. Right. And and be aware of the interests of the person, what they care about. Why do they care about the issue maybe you're working on and you know what their involvement is. Do you see this as a problem with streamers where they're not getting appreciated enough and it's causing streamers maybe not to do it as often or have there's been some maybe like some bad examples?

Alyssa: It kind of depends. I've seen some streamers just kind of turned off by marketing. It could be any variation that somebody could be turned off from it. But also understanding that in my opinion, I think the sweet spot, and a number of events that a streamer could do still maintain their livelihood and not over exhaust their community is probably four events a year. And like really spacing this out. Because you need time for all those people to recover, because when a streamer is going to do a charity event, they usually like tell their community for two weeks to a month out. And then even when I've done one, my viewers are like, oh, we'll save up. And like people do save up for hitting those milestones and goals.

Justin: So would love to hear from your perspective, what are some of the more exciting projects that you're working on this year that you're just really excited to be a part of and to share?

Alyssa: I'm really excited working on a project focused on affecting diversity in the charity world. I've noticed from going to nonprofit conventions and speaking how incredibly white it is. A lot of nonprofits are typically focused on people who are people of color or come from low income, really understanding that the people who are trying to solve these problems don't necessarily represent the people that are trying to solve the problem. And I can't affect the whole entire nonprofit industry with that aspect, but I am working on mentoring groups of 10 to 15 streamers at a time who have an interest in being, changing into the nonprofit industry. And I'm kind of going over how to think about looking at a when looking at a nonprofit's website, how to think about building a program or writing a go-to-market and really going through these steps. And then they're doing a mock poke project where they're doing all of that. So I would just say that when looking and hiring be very mindful that representation is important and that the online space for a very long time is mostly white, mostly white dudes, and that the online space is not always very welcoming to people of color and women. And that when you're hiring, be mindful that of working with, you know, people with more diverse backgrounds that also increase your ability to work with more diverse influencers. I like to compare the streaming industry or really in any new industry when talking about diversity to venture capitalism, because if you look at a venture capitalist, firms were considered women and people of color, much higher risk factors when investing in their companies and so they wouldn't. So you saw people of color only venture capitalist and women venture capitalists groups spring up and they're wildly successful. And so I think just really understanding that that's a big part of the market that's untapped. Even even on Twitch when talking with nonprofits. And then so I started noticing it myself. And then what drove me to be actionable on it was a nonprofit that came to me and they said, I noticed that most of our fundraisers are white and mostly male. And how do we fix this and how do we address this? And so I went to Twitter and was like, hey, you know, streamer friends that are people of color, can you help me out with some stuff? And a really great woman responded and gave me all kind, tons of feedback. We went back and forth and all at her own. She took it, ran with it. She did a three hour podcast talking about being a person of color and working with charities. And it was just really great. And some nonprofits I let know and so several nonprofits to down. And it was really good. And it's really great that charities in this space are thinking about how do we address, how to get better, how do we interact with people better.

Justin:  Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, congratulations on that project and that work. It's very important. The last question I have as we wrap up here is so how do nonprofits do they get in touch with you or do they get in touch with Twitch if they're thinking about getting started and wanting to jump in and be educated on this whole new world that so many of them probably have so many questions about still. What's the best way for them to basically reach out or get in touch?

Alyssa: charity@twitch.tv. Super easy.

Justin: Yeah, very easy. Well thank you so much for coming in today and teaching us more about what Twitch is doing and how it's looking at the nonprofit space and fundraising. Very important work. We're very honored to have you here. So thank you for coming in today.

Alyssa: Thank you for having me. It's been great.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit. This podcast is brought to you by your friends at Funraise. Nonprofit fundraising software, built by nonprofit people. If you'd like to continue the conversation, find me on LinkedIn or text me at 562-242-8160. And don't forget to get your next episode the second it hits the internet. Go to nonstopnonprofitpodcast.com and sign up for email notifications today. See you next time!